After Andy Carroll came back from injury with a goal for West Ham against Swansea City, David Sullivan revealed that there is a deal in place for Andy Carroll to join West Ham should the player want to, now I ask the question is this right for West Ham?
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With West Ham’s financial predicament and a rumoured deal worth around the £17 million mark and wages in excess of £80,000 a week, would this make financial sense to sign Carroll or is this once again financial suicide?
Personally I like Carroll and think he does offer a lot to West Ham, he gives us a big threat up front and is a real handful for defenders. However for a striker with such a high transfer figure and wage he simply doesn’t score enough goals for me to think this would be a worth while deal especially at the rumoured figures. I take into consideration that Carroll has come in and has been hounded with injury and not had a consistent run in the side and also it does take time to adapt to a new team but Carroll has never really been prolific in terms of goal scoring.
I think there are a number of deals out there that are more financially viable for West Ham. If you take Adam Le Fondre who has been red hot this season and only cost Reading a rumoured £350,000. Michu only cost Swansea £2 million and he shows you don’t have to spend over the odds for players who can have an impact, which West Ham have a habit of doing. Matt Jarvis for example is a good player but is he really worth the amount we spent on him? I personally don’t think so.
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Every fan wants their club to sign the best and biggest players going and I’m no different. I want West Ham to have all the best players gracing the claret and blue shirt, but at what cost? I certainly don’t want to be in the same position before Gold and Sullivan took over the club, and I most certainly don’t want to be the next Portsmouth. West Ham need to get the finances in check before we go throwing that kind of money about on one player and with all due respect to Carroll I would want more for my money than what Carroll offers.
West Ham signed Carroll on loan for the season costing around £2 million plus his £80,000 wage. It’s great that we can attract players such as Carroll but I don’t think he is worth more than that. I know some fans will totally disagree with me and that is fine, but let’s not ruin the hard work Gold, Sullivan and Brady have done in sorting our finances, by throwing money around that we don’t have on a player that is massively over priced. Carroll is not going to be the player to push us back towards European football and therefore I do not feel that he will bring a sufficient return compared to his expenditure.
So the answer to the question is I feel that if this move goes ahead we are committing financial suicide, there are plenty of top players we can attract at a fraction of the price we would pay for Carroll.
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Let’s be smart and spend within our means. I am not being a pessimistic fan I just want what’s best for our club and that’s not to throw money around on players that aren’t worth it again! If we are all honest when Liverpool signed Carroll for £35 million from Newcastle we all thought he wasn’t worth it, I know I did.
Carl Bateson
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That is around £23m in total which is not a bad deal after they paid £35m.
The fella has only just got back from injury,
Give him a chance and see where we go.
I reckon he is perfect for our team and the way BFS plays. 17 mill a lot of dough but Carroll is only young and will only get better which is what we want.
I am sure the double D’s have something sorted out by now but i would much rather have AC playing for us rather than against. C.O.Y.I
I agree. Carroll is a good player, but is he £17m worth of talent? I don’t think so.
Rumour has it Allardyce will be given a £20m transfer kitty if we stay in the Premiership, so to blow £17m of that on one player who only scores a handful of goals a season would be crazy.
There are better and more prolific strikers around than Andy Carroll. I think he’ll actually end up back at Newcastle.
We shall see.
i cant say i agree. If he can stay fit Andy is a real asset…one which could be with us for a long time since he is only 24. As was seen against Swansea, if you put the ball in the right places he will score the goals.
Remember Drogba?…as i recall he only really came into his own in his mid to late twenties. Same for Llorente or Lambert. Tall, physically strong players seem to peak at later ages then their smaller, more technical counterparts. Sign AC for 5 years and watch him dominate games by the age of 26-27.
Furthermore…we must consider the context of such a purchase. We are looking at 30 odd million from TV rights (new deal) alone for next year which would significantly improve our buying power as well as the wages we could offer.
And since all of this is based in assumptions, lets assume that we offer only 60k and Andy agrees to lower his wage by 1/4. What then?!?!
Given the choice, i would always vote to buy AC rather then not to buy him. Fact is he is not a poacher and probably never will be, but his presence, his work rate, his determination and the sheer amount of chances he creates for his team-mates setting them up in front of goal (see Swansea game) more then makes up for it. He improves our overall game so much it’s ridiculous to not at least consider him on a permanent basis.
As for the more affordable deals you mention. Yes, there are a few…but none proven in the prem. And look as P.Cisse for instance…came in with a bang and has since gone quiet. Let’s see how long Michu keeps it up… there are a lot of unknowns with foreign players. With Carroll, you know exactly what you are getting. And personally i think that with the addition of 3-4 more players (right wing, both full-backs and a keeper) he could lead the line for us all the way back into Europe.
I value your opinion but again i stick to what i have wrote, a player for £17 million i would expect a lot more than what Carroll offers. Not saying he is a bad player am saying he is nowhere near the £35 million spent by liverpool and still not worth near the £17 million we would have to spend to get him! If you said £7-8 million i would say good deal but not £17 million
agreed that he was never worth 35mil. That was a panic buy if ever i saw one. I’d personally go up to 15mil for Andy which might be exactly how much we would have to pay. I dont know how accurate the 17mil is. It could well be that we paid 2mil up front for the loan and would only need 15mil more for the actual purchase.
Like i said…i have every confidence that if Andy stays fit he will be at least the player Drogba was for Chelsea. The potential is clearly there… i for one would view such a purchase as an investment in the future of our team.
But like i said. At this point everything is supposition. We dont know the details of the deal ,whether the Davids will try to negotiate a slightly lower fee or if Andy would be willing to lower his wage so this discussion is a bit premature. We also need to give the lad time till the end of the season to prove himself and also prove he can stay fit which is vital if any purchase is to be made at all.
£7-8 million ???? Really Carl, that’s hardly a small fortune in 2013. Clubs are paying that kind of money regularly for players that are good, but not brilliant.
Don’t look at AC as merely a striker, he creates far more goal scoring opportunities than goals that he scores. At a cost of £8.5 million Matt Jarvis, for example, is a good player but for £17 million Andy is more than twice the value of MJ and many other players.
In recent years there have been many transfer rumors of a potential trade for Carlton Cole in the £8 million range. Is Andy not twice the value of CC? I rest my case 🙂
I personal see CC and AC of equal ability
Carl – CC and AC of equal ability??… you cant be serious. I’m sure you’ve watched our games this season so i’m really struggling to find a reason for you to say that other then support your own argument against buying Andy.
No am happy for people to disagree thats the great thing about been a writer, but i have my own opinions, i personally feel that Cole work ethic is amazing he lacks the kill instant and kill finish same as Carroll. You cant possible say that Carroll is worth the £17 million? 2 goals and injury problems not £17 million i would like to waste.. a good target man but thats it
Ro mate, AC really hasn’t done much more than CC. I agree with Carl. Has AC scored a load more than CC? No. With Diame back in the side we are fine. AC is a rip off, no way is he worth over £10 million let alone 17.
Maybe people should remember that the davids financed the Carroll deal from their own pocket to accommodate the managers wishes! Its not a debt for club as per normal.
I know people keep on about the money LFC paid for him, but the truth is Chelsea bought him for us. They were told that Torres would cost what ever price was quoted for AC + £15m. If the reported £17m is accurate, then we will have recouped £32m over the course of financial activity for AC. Dalglish’s buys were heavily criticised at the time for not performing but they mostly seem to be coming good now. I believe that AC has the ability/potential to be a great player. As someone quoted above, “Id rather he played for us, than against us”
Our persuit to sign Andy Carroll on a season loan seemed to show the commitment of the owners to cement our place in the Premiership and at the same time a calculated risk which for me has not paid off!
Caroll’s weekly salary is a disgrace for a club like ourselves to pay out, a striker who has scored 3 Goals now in his last 28 matches, no wonder Liverpool snapped our hands off! I also wonder what some of the other hard working players feel like who have had to fight and wait for salary increases!
Okay Andy Carroll has a few months to prove himself but then to pay anymore than £8 Million would be a joke and a weekly salary of £45k initially! But I do not think it will come to this Carroll has used us If Newcastle come in for him at the end of the season he will have no doubts to return to them!
wow…this just seems like biased drivel. Sorry mate. At least a shred of objectivity would help. Everyone went on about Diame and how much we missed him when he was out. But the truth is we missed Andy just as much if not more. With him out on the field we look a much stronger side and not even the biggest Carroll-hater could deny that. His contribution to the team has been immense. Some people seem to think that all a forward is ever worth is the goals he scores but personally i dont agree.
More to the point though… the financial side of the deal is not something that is up for debate really. Its up to the board and management how they want to spend the transfer kitty. The only question that should even be asked is: Given a choice whether to keep AC or not what would you do? (regardless of the finances involved) … and based on his contribution to the team i’d be willing to wager a hefty sum that most people would say “yes”.
Mate, Diame was the missing piece, not Carroll. One game of us looking ok, we were still dominated possession-wise and created a few chances, we weren’t that great. The money for him is a rip off, end of. You are blinded by your love of AC, he just isn’t that good.
Diame was not that great vs Swansea for one thing…whereas Carroll was man of the match by a long ways. That says a lot to me. As i said in a post lower down…before his first injury this season he had created more chances for his teammates to score then any player in the league except David Silva. That also says a lot.
So you wouldn’t say that Diame has been our best player this season? Aside from Reid he has been leaps ahead of everyone else. We didn’t exactly score that many with AC in the side so whilst that may have been a fact we weren’t banging them in with him. He is no way worth £17 million and the wages he wants are ridiculous. Even if we could afford him I wouldn’t want him. We got Demba Ba for 500,000, I would take him any day over AC. Need to look for a striker with genuine quality not one who just fits the system but isn’t actually that great. I hope he proves me wrong but I doubt he will. Easy to create chances when you are the only one he gets the ball up top.
I think Andy is worth £10-12 mill personally. I believe the deal in place is for more than that and that is what we would have to pay. You can gurantee though that if we dont sign him Newcastle will get him for about £12mill. I personally think he would be great for us once settled in and avoiding injuries. I think what we do need to address is who plays behind him. Although great friends with Carroll, I believe we need to replace Nolan, with somebody who is bit more younger and faster and offers the team something more in midfield than just hanging on the edge of an opponents box. Yes he does score the occasional goal but lets be honest 95% of the game passes him by and unless it is played to his feet you’ve lost the ball. Somebody like Sigurdsson from Spurs or even Dempsey. If Carroll does not work out I wonder what price we could get Lukaku for
We are limited when buying strikers because of the way the big sams likes to play. we’ve seen it with Maiga, a very good finisher who has struggled as he doesn’t hold the ball up or win headers particulaly well. AC fits the mould perfectly. Whether he is prolific or not we are a better team and score more goals when he is playing. I also feel that it is unfair banging on about the amount of goals he has scored. he probably has never reached full fitness with us due to his injuries. A 50% fit AC is more effective than the rest of our current crop of strikers.
17m is alot of money to spend, but we know he will be successful here and due to his age will get better. My concern is the injuries. If he really wants to play for us and the fee is £17m then I feel we should pay it. We know what we are getting, we are a perfect fit for each other and strikers cost more money.
Maiga is not a lone striker that is way. He did fantastic in the French league when playing with a strike partner. AC fits the mould perfectly, the mould is what is failing us at the moment. 2 goals in 14 games isn’t worth £17 million or £90,000. He is definitely not worth the money we would have to pay and if Big Sam could swallow his pride and play 2 up top we would be much better off and have a regular goal scorer.
AC and CC of equal ability? Oh dear…
Explain to me how Carroll is far more superior to Cole
Happy to oblige, Carl. And remember, CC (Age 29) has been playing almost twice as long as AC (Age 24)
Carlton Okirie (AKA Cole)- 29 years old
Premiership – 59 goals in 282 appearances = 1 goal every 4.78 games
This season – 2 goals from 32 shots in 22 appearances
England U19-U21 – 6 goals in 33 appearances = 1 goal every 5.50 games
England Full Intl – 0 goals in 7 appearances
In summary – 65 goals in 12 years of Premiership & Intl football
Andy Carroll – 24 years old (5 years younger than CC)
Premiership – 40 goals in 147 appearances = 1 goal every 3.68 games
This season – 2 goals from 31 shots in 14 appearances
England U19-U21 – 8 goals in 22 appearances = 1 goal every 2.75 games
England Full Intl – 2 goals in 9 appearances
In summary – 48 goals in 7 years of Premiership & Intl football
Sorry Carl but the facts don’t lie
Not such a major difference to justify paying £17 million in my opinion
Cole – 65 goals in 12 years
Carroll – 48 in 7 years
Lets hope if we sign Carroll he can improve on what he has given us this year? to justify a massive price tag
Carlton is clearly not as good Carroll and I am struggling work out what attributes Cole is better. I think there is only one, work rate.
If we are judging by stats I think its worth looking at Maiga’s, although apparently he does not fit into our system. Despite being the clubs second top scorer, with only 4 starts and 14 as sub this season.
Over Maiga’s club career he has played 166 games with 55 of them coming off the bench and has scored 43 goals. This gives him a rate of 3.86 per game and he is 2 years YOUNGER than Carroll.
I know his stats are not all premier league but he has scored more than Carroll in the prem this season. The price tag was 4.7m for Maiga, compared to the 17m for Carroll.
So do you think that Carroll is 3 times a better player than Maiga? I personally Do not and feel he is a hugely underrated player. Obviously they are very different types of player, but goals is what it is all about.
Given the chance to play alongside Carroll, I can see plenty of goals between them
lee
Sorry Mate (John Atkinson) but those numbers are not ‘facts’, so they do indeed lie.
AC scored 20 Premier league goals in 85 appearances prior to joining WHU.
CC scored 32 in 140 appreances prior to this season (Not taking into account how many games off the bench)
Neither are exactly goals scorers….?
Andy Carroll is nowhere near worth the money we will have to pay and then his wages on top of that. He is a £10 million striker at best, just because Liverpool got ripped off doesn’t make him a £35 million striker. We will be getting ripped off by paying £17 million. What he has done for us has been no better than CC to be perfectly honest. He will be a bigger waste of money than Jarvis and that is saying something because he has been useless.
I also think a lot depends on whether Big Sam is here next season as a different manager may look to a different system.So my order of events is 1)if we stay up 2) who the manager is 3)do we pay the money for AC
personally i would like to see Big Sam with us next year
Keep the debt going people loving hearing your opinions!
On the CC & AC comment – CC and AC in my opinion are very similar yeah i wouldnt say one was better than the other. The point i have been trying to make is not that Carroll is a bad player i dont think that at all, i think he is useful for us and is a player that fits well in to BFS style but not at the cost of £17 million i would rather pay £5 million and get Grant Holt who is the same type of player as Carroll but looks like scoring more goals yes he is older but financially a better buy
Simple fact is if a deal for Carroll is to be done it will be because our financial position will have changed considerably by then. In present circumstances (no confirmed OS move and no confirmed financial input) then there is no way we will buy Carroll or indeed he would do so other than extremely reluctantly ie no other better alternative. 20 mil is decent money but not with that deal included.
So with that being the case we don’t know how (plus how much) he will play for the remainder of the season which will be vital to say the least in respect of both us and others wanting him and we dont know what our financial situation will be by then. As such pretty pointless making such a decision (assuming its even our choice) at this juncture.
First up Carroll has got ability, of that there is no doubt. We have seen glimpses so far, but the lads had a bad injury run…lets see what happens between now and seasons end, then make a more balanced decision. If he goes on to bang in 10 goals and terrorises defences, which Hammers fan is going to want to see him leave ??? Personally, I like him and think he would fit in well with current playing style.
Lets also remember that Gold & Sullivan know exactly what the state of the club is…there is no way that these two hard headed businessmen would spend money they dont have…thats why they are both multi-millionaires !!!
I never said he doesn’t have ability! what i said was i wouldn’t want to waste £17 million on a player like Carroll my opinion, 2 goal in 14 games and having bad luck with injury not a risk i want to take for £17 million, i can understand why people would want him but i feel the price as for all English player is inflated. With all due respect Carroll has only really had 1 good season when Newcastle first came up, other than that he has been a hit and miss player, it wasn’t so long ago the majority of West Ham fans were slagging him off saying he was a waste, i wasn’t one of those cos he will no doubt do a job for us but i repeat i would not buy him for £17 million pound.
Everybody is hung up on this £35m price tag on AC – everybody knows that it was all relative to what Chelsea paid for Torres, so in reality Torres was worth £25-£30m at that time so AC was a £10-15m striker which I think is still about right. It is impossible to say that he is no better than CC as we have only really seen him play 2 games fully fit, which were Fulham & Swansea at home, 2 games where he was totally unplayable & caused the defences no end of problems. He may not be an out & out poacher or natural 30 goal a season striker but in Sam’s system I cannot think of a better player. If we could secure his services for £10-12m I think it will be excellent business, not to mention how much better Nolan & Jarvis play with him in the team. To say he is no better than Carlton (who I love for his effort & loyalty) is crazy & I would be interested in your opinion once he has a decent run in the team & has established an understanding of how his team mates actually play. Please no more injuries!!
I want to clear this i said personally i see them having equal ability, not one been better than the other, my opinion come the end of the season will also be the same as i dont rate him as a £17 million pound striker thats the top and bottom! the sole purpose as a striker is to get goals is it not? and we have established he aint gonna get us hand fulls of goals so i would spend the money of a striker who can maybe even get 3 for the price we would spend on Carroll
Lets hang on a minute andy carroll was worth 35mil to liverpool when playing at his best if we do sign him for say 17 milllion on a five year deal and he hits top form again ,at his peak he will be worth at least that maybe more ,got to be worth a punt bare in mind he will be playing for england again soon always puts money on a deal or if he is really successful and banging goals in he could be the difference between getting european football or not (cant put a figure on that) as for carlton cole you cannot compare the two carltons career is on the way down andy carroll has not yet hit his peak
Can you honestly say that he was worth £35 million when Liverpool signed him? that shocks me, Carroll is a good player but the transfer figures that have been but on his head is do not match his ability
I would like to see Paulo DC as our next manager. We need more flair. Sam is a bit too dour for us and far too negative away from home. His negativity hasn’t even brought us points away from home either.
Personally, if we were to change managers, which im not saying we should…i’d rather have Di Matteo then PDC at this particular time. PDC is a ways off managing a premiership club (not just for footballing reasons but financial ones, not to mention man management what with all the prima-donnas in the prem) …give it a few years.
Ro we finally agree on something, although i would like to see Big Sam stay
Indeed. I also think that if Sam keeps us up he deserves to stay…no doubt about it.
exactly i feel he has done a great job
Compared to where we were before he came…yeah…i would say so. Hard to argue with the facts.
Let me clarify on the AC vs CC issue. It’s simple. AC works more, has better touch and passing, holds the ball up better…i can go on and on. But let’s get down to numbers…prior to his first injury this season Andy Carroll was second only to David Silva in the whole league as far as “chances created for teammates” go. He sets people up in front of goal…that is the primary role of this type of striker. And according to the stats he does that really well. Just look at the Swansea game…he set up Nolan twice as well as Tomkins with clear goalscoring chances…all they had to do was put it in the net. Thats what he is suppose to do. Sure he should score more…at least be in double figures during a season…but take into account how little game time he has actually had at Liverpool and now WHU due to various reasons. While he will never be a poacher, im confident for a 1 in 3 goal ratio for Andy… add to that the chances he creates and thats one hell of a forward. And he is only 24 years old to boot. Maybe 17mil is a few million more then his worth at this particular time…but give it two years or so and things will change.
you killed your own argument stating stating he aint worth £17 million yet.. Listen if we buy him for £17 million i will still have the same opinion but RO you shouting from the roof tops about his ability yet we are all still waiting to see it. I also said that CC & AC have equal ability not 1 is better than the other, and Cole’s first touch is far better than Carrolls. 1 striker for £17 million that will get you maybe 8-10 goals a season or 3 strikers for the same amount and less wage that can grab 8-10 each? i know what i would like
I said that on current form, having been injured twice this season he is not worth 17mil. He may well be by the end of the season. And tell me again how many goalscoring chances CC creates. Like i said…AC was second only to David Silva according to stats in that department before injury. And he created 3 just in the Swansea game. Percentage wise, AC manages to keep possession on far more long balls thrown his way then CC…that is a fact. He creates more…that is a fact. And over the course of their respective careers AC goal ratio is better then CC’s…fact. What more proof do you need?
trying to say too many things at one damnit. Bottom line is that i think 17mil in AC is a good investment. Also…footy is not math. You cant say we could buy 2 strikers 8-10 goals each. You would have to divide the number of goalscoring chances between the two…and its not like Andy has has a lot. He created more then were created for him thats for sure.
This is the great thing about football tho really there are so many different opinions its great to hear everyones! if we sign him i will do what i have done this season so far and support the guy cos he is a good player i just dont feel that £17 million makes sense… although it is definitely a area that we need to improve on as goals scored has been a problem
Agreed.
Also…if you are curious…you can find some words on Carroll on Cottee’s Column here:
http://www.london24.com/sport/west-ham/cottee_column_west_ham_s_carroll_reminds_me_of_my_hero_david_cross_1_1868668
It’s not just the £17m, its the wages. £12-14m with £60k wages and it’s a deal.
How certain is it that we need to pay 17mil. Like i said…for all we know it might have been 2mil for the loan and we just need to pay 15mil to complete the deal with 17 being the total amount. As for the wages…i imagine we will not be offering quite as much as Liverpool so 60k sounds about right. Like Sullivan said…we still have to agree terms with the player even if we do pursue our option to buy. We have to wait and see i guess.